Wednesday, February 18, 2015

Going straight to the source.

Dave Trumpore was trying to defend his affinity for the Cane Creek Doubtable Barrel (I just came up with that... I know, it's hilarious, right?), and then we turned our gaze to the new Push Industries rear shock. I asked him what he thought about it, and he said "why don't you ask Peter Verdone what he thinks?"

So I did.



"The shock looks nice enough. I hope that Darren can move forward with something like this. Still, Avalanche has always remained on the side lines despite making incredible parts and most people are utterly confused by CCDB/TTX shocks that they run scared from them. The market is truly ignorant and they don’t seem to want to learn.

Here are a few of my thoughts.
  1. “Murphy discovered that a rounded, parabolic shaped needle would control rebound flow in more even increments than a tapered needle would. Who knew?”
    This is a joke right? Ohlins has been doing this for a few years from my understanding. It’s something that I was proposing about 10 years ago.
    It’s always amazing the marketing horseshit that the bicycle industry is able to stomach.
  2. Hyperco is a great company. I got a lot of motorcycle springs from them. They were always rated within 2% as they claim. Still, Ohlins consistently made lighter springs that had a longer linear range. Obviously, the linearity is always within the rated stroke but it’s saying something when you get more. It would be nice to compare the weights of the Hyperco bike springs with the Ohlins bike springs. The fine 25 lb increments is a great thing.
  3. I like that they are showing dyno charts but they look a bit idealized. I’d like to see some independent tests. Still, nobody else is talking about dynos in the bicycle business so we can enjoy that.
  4. The large shaft is going to displace a lot of fluid. That may be a function of the design or a by product of thinking ‘bigger is better’ that comes and goes in shock shafts. Typically, shafts are small in diameter.
  5. The dual compression circuit and the parabolic needles are really the value here. Long travel bikes really like climb circuits for climbing. But this is a large coil shock. I don’t see why this is something even needed as the only real market is gravity.
  6. The lack of a bladder is underwhelming. I would expect that on a such a high end shock. The IFP is certainly not a selling point here.
  7. The lack of a negative spring is lame. Ohlins uses a negative spring. I belive that RockShocks has followed. It’s really the proper way of doing things.
  8. I would like to see a spring perch bearing of some sort. Even the delrin washers I use on my shocks would be nice to see here but they are lacking.

-Peter Verdone, 2015




There you have it people. Discuss.

15 comments:

Anonymous said...

It's just like Avalanche, people spending too much money on something just so they can pretend it's better than what the World Cup guys ride. The real value for them is telling everybody about how great it is. And they always seem to be the slower riders.

Sam Russell said...

Remember that the world cup guys are generally paid/ sponsored to use gear - they don't necessarily use the outright best stuff

Matty said...

Contrary to what Peter states, the shock does come with a polymer bearing for the coil:

PB: "Besides the damping controls, did you include any other features like needle bearings in the spring collars or eyelets?"
DM: "The shock does have a built in polymer spring bearing..."

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/first-look-push-industrys-elevensix-shock.html

Anonymous said...

Typically, PVD's shaft is small in diameter. Now, go learn what the fuck you're talking about before challenging Darren.

Old Blood and Guts said...

Hi,

Gen. George S. Patton here. First time commenter--long time reader.

Mega Dittos ROBOT

This comment is for PVD.

Firstly, do you mind if I address you as PVD? Calling you Peter seems like something my south mouth would say. So for the sake of not being queer I'll go with PVD.

I've got some good news and I've got some bad news for you pal..

...THE GOOD NEWS:

PVD's sentence "It would be nice to compare the weights of the Hyperco bike springs with the Ohlins bike springs." PVD uses "compared with"and not "compared to" because, If the differences are important, say compared "with" not "to" when comparing like objects.

Well done Peter.

and so...

...THE BAD NEWS:

You can't unstuck a cock.

Bummer Bro.





Anonymous said...

^
what?

Darren Murphy said...

I’d like to respond to the above comments:
1.All of the bikes in our application list come with either the FOX FLaot X, or RS Debonair. Neither of which come with a parabolic needle so this is worthy to note. We never claimed to invent the parabolic as it has been widely used in motorsports for decades. We’re simply pointing out that we use the technology.

2.Our HyperCo MTB spring is lighter than the Ohlins MTB springs that we’ve had from the Specialized OE applications.

3.Idealized dyno graphs? There’s no smoke and mirrors here as we wouldn’t publish information that someone with a dyno could disprove. These are straight up force curves from an ELEVENSIX and a Float X

4.We never claimed anything regarding shaft size as it’s a standard ½”. Some people have made those assumptions based on pictures.

5.Our market with this shock is not gravity, it’s everyday trail bikes. The technology was developed based on demand and experience from our tuning business.

6.There are pro’s and con’s to both bladder and IFP systems and we tested with both. The IFP for this application was superior. If it hadn’t been, we would’ve used our bladder. For the record it’s very difficult to find bladder systems in off-road applications. To your point of continuing to use Ohlins as an example….they use IFP’s in everything other than the Specialized OE shock.

7.I’m confused as to why a negative spring is needed in an application where there is hardly any static preload? The function of the negative spring is to balance the level of preload produced by the main spring. Very necessary in air sprung shocks but not in this application.

8.We do use a polymer bearing on our upper retainer. This just hasn’t been talked about too much.

Darren

kidwoo said...

"the woman he had built it for and I had just broken the ice, PVD style."

Now ask him what that means.

http://www.peterverdone.com/?p=6901

Reformed Roadie said...

"As much as I thought I knew, I really didn't know much."

THE END

Anonymous said...

Shock Looks like robot "cock n' balls".

Deon Fouche said...

Who the fuck is Peter Verdone and what the fuck are we talking about

Sincerely

Everyone outside the Murica

Sam Russell said...

Hahah PVD, much lolz, many misunderstanding

Kyle said...

Alloy shock shaft relocating the rebound circuit since the dual comp circuits are taking up necessary real estate?

Who gives a fuck about an IFP?

Now I need a new nomad.

Anonymous said...

I like that Darren comes on here to shit on PVD.

Jade Graham said...

I hope that Darren can move forward with something like this. Still, Avalanche has always remained on the side lines despite making incredible parts and most people are utterly confused by CCDB/TTX shocks that they run scared from them. The market is truly ignorant and they don’t seem to want to learn. straight from the source